Unified database

Of the back of the "more tactical" thread, this is a separate topic.

I have been saying this to TJ and TVig for a little while now and that it might be a wholly better idea if something like this was released with the EDx.

We need to find out what everyone likes from their way of playing before anything gets put into motion.

whether you are pc savvy or not, whether you have messed with modding the game or not lets express what we would think would like to see in a UDB.

AFAIK, Skaa wanted to make the improved DB to be as realistic as possible. This concerned me slightly as much as I thought it was a good idea. The problem with DR is the limitations of it as we know. I had a feeling that not all would work in terms of realism for the player when playing DR because it isn't really a "sim" type game, the game-play is to quick for that. I think the major change that he did to improve on what had been released prior to his, was the vehicle handling. I thought he did an excellent job on that.

Some of the weapon recoils were a bit drastic but they were manageable, I personally didn't like the recoil on the Heavy sniper rifles when lying on the ground. I think they should have been a bit more stable than what was released.

I know aswell that he was changing the damage values from each weapon to represent the real life aswell. Has anyone seen a difference between the vanilla DB and his DB.

He spent a long time on that Database and when it was released I don't know really how well it was received.

TemplarGFX has the Better Database, this was mainly like the title says improving the weapons, handling, recoil, muzzle velocity etc etc. I think he unlocked thing s aswell as tinker on the weapons, like various props and additional ammo crates.

Enigmas Database I hear is quite cool, I don't actually know what is in that apart from a blackhawk Helo which i have used in a mission.

The DB used in D-day and Nighhawk was a slightly modded version of the improved DB, I had changed the sight distances and taken off the sway on all US weapons. I didn't do the pla weapons, because I couldn't be arsed tbh. But we also put in the Thermal binos. TJ had changed some values in the apc handling whilst in water to improve the turning circle.

Now, there are three things that could cause considerable concern amongst us.

TJ also modified his DB to have a better FOV for when sitting on the minigun in a seahawk, you can now look parallel along the fuselage of the aircraft left and right 180 degrees, which helps alot in D-day. He'd be able to shed more light on other things but that is a notable difference in his DB.

So... some food for thought there guys, some DB's have better weapons, some have better vehicles, others have little bits here and there changed. What would we like to see as a "UNIFIED DATABASE"?

Personally, I'm not too bothered what's in a DB. I think what's more important for us as a community is that we're all using the same one.

my point is really to find a happy medium. what TJ is using now alongside what Tvig has is really not that bad.

Tvig managed at one stage to organise all the elements in the DB he has into an order. And I mean organise it, all the us weapons together, US units, Pla units, pla weapons, all the vehicles for both sides.

I personnally like the vehicles from the improved DB and would like to see that as a standard for the rest of the DB's used.

AI may need configuring slightly maybe???

the weapons need to be suited to everyones tastes, some like sway some don't etc. Same goes for recoil, do we have alittle? alot? or none at all?

what is good for one player may not be good for another. We need to discuss what people like and don't and find a happy medium don't we really. If you're not bothered by what is in it, I'm sure there will be something in there that you will find a just not quite to your taste, so if you guys find anything put it up here and we can discuss it.

Realise this though, editing a DB can be a minefield. If you put one thing out of place it might not work or if you don't back it up it could potentially be lost. Plus there are over 20000 lines of code in those .xml files and it is a lot to go through. Skaa spent a good six months on his own doing his DB so a massive overhaul may not be needed.

A unified data base would be a step in the right direction, i hope members make there views known on this. Ok were to begin? I'd like some scope sway on snipers and all other guns allthough not excessive, that well timed sniper shot is always more rewarding. Some recoil on all guns but again not to much. The most important has to be AI. Make them as realistic as possible? Seek cover when shot at, some take up defensive positions "dig in" others suppress fire your position, others flank you, use correct weapons for the job, rpgs for armoured vehicles and not bullets, Snipers to seak cover, guards to patrol perimeter of bases, use grenades and smoke to slow your advance, if possible seek cover inside buildings and fire through windows. If we do get better weather fx ie rainstorms thunder lightning, turn down vision ranges at this time, PLA are always deadly at close quarters. Iknow most of this has been implemented just saying what i like. cheers dewi

A unified data base would be a step in the right direction, i hope
members make there views known on this. Ok were to begin? I'd like some
scope sway on snipers and all other guns although not excessive, that
well timed sniper shot is always more rewarding. Some recoil on all guns
but again not to much.

This can be done without any problems in terms of changing the values. Whether we all agree on the same thing is a another matter. I can handle the sway if it is only a tiny bit but I hate it when the thing is moving around as if I have parkinsons.

The most important has to be AI. Make them as realistic as possible?
Seek cover when shot at, some take up defensive positions "dig in"
others suppress fire your position, others flank you, use correct
weapons for the job, rpgs for armoured vehicles and not bullets, Snipers
to seak cover, guards to patrol perimeter of bases, use grenades and
smoke to slow your advance, if possible seek cover inside buildings and
fire through windows.

Fixing the AI in terms of this via the Database can't be done, they can be done through the modules and EDx whilst making a mission. For example in Nighthawk, TJ managed to code the AI to react if a contact was made, some would board the nearest vehicle or a helo would fly over and drop troops off etc. That is a prime example of what cannot be done through the Database, it has to be coded for the mission via the script itself.

If we do get better weather fx ie rainstorms
thunder lightning, turn down vision ranges at this time, PLA are always
deadly at close quarters.

there is no way on earth we can have a rain effect at the moment. I can simulate thunder clap with audio fx but thats about it. Lightning is not feasble either at the moment.

However we can alter the vision distances in someway, I know that is what Templar has done and I think Tvig has done something aswell. Tj adjusted the vision range using his stealth code. LOL! thats a world you'll never understand if you ever saw the code he used for NightHawk. If only the EDx was there sooner. lol!

Anyway, what we can do is:

• weapon adjustments,
  
• height,
  
• sway,
  
• scope distances,
  
• ammo crates,
  
• unit load-outs,
  
• damage,
  
• velocities
  
• vehicle weapon positions
  
• recoils
  

These are just a few things that can be changed so if you think of anything else bring it up, I'm sure someone will be able to say yay or nay!

cheers

We need a list of all changes of new UDB and make a poll to figure out what would people like to have in game. For ex:
...do we need weapon sway? - Y/N (more/less)
...recoil - Y/N (more /less)
etc...

I think the main point is being missed here. The reason we don't already have a unified db is because of the MASSIVE amount of work required to create wnd test it. Are any of you willing to put in the time to do it?? I can help out with technical issues, but the work of putting all of these ideas together is monumental. I might suggest approaching one concept at a time. First try to come up with an unlocked db, that way all of the modules can be used without swapping out db's. Then people might be able to focus on the less crutial items like torches, sway and weapon position.

Just some food for thought.

Cheers

I didn't miss that point, I just didn't explain that fact too much. It is indeed a MASSIVE JOB. Like I said there are over 20000 lines of code you need to go through for the whole DB and doing a complete overhaul will take time.

The best suggestion I think would be use what TJdagger has done with his DB and the rest will get worked on over time on the one DB.

We need to find out what is suited for everyone to get an idea of what we would need to do.

I certainly won't devote endless hours of my own time adjusting, testing and waiting for feedback to see what is right or wrong in it.

I don't mind messing around with a few things but I can't commit full artistic license to it. It requires more than one body to do it.

you guys have the right idea about a UDB and it would need a general consensus for core functionality - the key issue is the UDB is integrated into the mission at mission designers compile time only.

The other Unified aspect might be an AIconfig mod to give better balance to the conceal/cover aspect - and again only for consistency sake.  These external files effect all missions so one AIconfig might leave you troops standing in a field under fire while a wider radius version has them seeking cover 200 meters away.

Its the balance that is important and one sacrifices one for the other - all of us that have gotten mind trenched in this agree that it falls on CM for not allowing better access to this.